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Messages - Giuliano Taverna

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1
Right wing / What?!?
« on: March 19, 2011, 09:36:54 pm »
There are no aliens on this planet... and the united states and united kingdom are two separate countries... also what are you talking about?

2
Site News / Re: I'm sick of spam...
« on: January 12, 2011, 05:55:47 pm »
Well its ok... I actually have my own chatroom now as well. I may as well announce that here, after I finish cleaning up the spam...

3
Site News / I'm sick of spam...
« on: October 07, 2010, 10:37:11 pm »
If it weren't bad enough that this forum has been dead for months do to a general lack of interest from myself, and everyone who joined at its inception. I spent the last 10 minutes deleting spammers.

I'm pretty sure I only killed the slime who joined to make some pathetic amount of money at the expense of nothing save my name, which is a capital offense in and of itself, but if I didn't then that's a shame.

I'd delete this forum if I didn't think I might need it again at some point.

4
Essays / To those so made that they must believe
« on: April 09, 2010, 07:35:03 pm »
To those so made that they must believe,  from an infidel with no desire to deceive.

I would like to address not the undecided agnostics, secular relativists, and casual church goers of whom no interest is likely to be taken but rather those who genuinely believe in a higher power interested in the way in which we as humans live. Those of which it can be said, the mere suggestion of empiricism causes sheer offense and moral outrage. Let me attempt to explain the position of the infidel.

You must first understand how arrogant you seem to us. Surly unintended and yet delivered is the notion that you have been privy to profound concepts of which we have not. We who in the tradition of Socrates claim ignorance as our first and only ornament and in the tradition of Sir Francis Bacon hold ourselves to the scientific method which requires the constant testing of thorium by experimentation.

We do not claim with the same degree of certainty or finality that for example the earth is held to its orbit around the sun by the force of gravity, as you must hold if you are Christian the immaculate conception, death, and resurrection of the risen lord Jesus Christ, or if you are a Muslim the authenticity and integrity of the holy Quran as revealed by the arch angle Gabriel to the prophet Mohammad, (I would at this moment like to credit Muslims for avoiding the extra level of fatuity incurred by Christians when they deified their prophet.) While we accept that based on the available evidence, mathematic formulae, and every test and experiment rendered, gravity is the most likely of the available explanations and can thus be accepted for common consumption as fact. Gravity however remains scientifically “only a theory” which may in some unforeseen turn of events turn out to be false or partially flawed in the distant future, (the ability to discover that being ingrained into the aforementioned method.)

Coming from this perspective the concept of revealed wisdom and absolute unalterable truth is not just wrong to us; it’s the closest we can come to the experiences you must be familiar with of blasphemy, hubris, and offense. What you say offends the core of our reality and existence, it challenges the fundamental basis for the way in which we see the world. Unlike you who must draw your evidence from your conclusion, (the basic definition of circular logic which is not logic at all but a fallacy) we have the burden of proof on our side.  We consider it offensive for you to even make the suggestion that our positions are equal and deserve to be treated as such, let alone the suggestion you must make that you are superior to us, and that as a function of our intellectual integrity you have the privilege of eternal life, and we are dammed to eternal torment.

On the subject of morality and the integrity of the mind and of consciousness, we infidels are offended and outraged at the crude way the parties of god phrase our concept of materialism. Spoken in terms of “what basis do you have for morality if you are just a bunch of chemicals.” I’m left myself asking, how you dare mock the profound beauty and majesty of the material universe, the endless complexity of life descending from a point of infinite simplicity, the laws which are almost miraculous precisely because there are no miracles and no suspensions or inconsistencies within said laws.

Indeed it’s gone further, I personally have had my principles directly challenged in the most base and desperate way and been asked, “Can you honestly look at yourself in the mirror and say that your great intellect is simply the work of carbon and chemicals?” What arrogance, sophistry, ignorance, and pure hubris could possible bring someone to state such an open assault on the very basis of objective truth? My great intellect is the result of the human brain, a thing of such incredible complexity and majesty that we have yet to understand one tenth of its functionality.  It is a construct that took millions of years to evolve, and that we couldn’t come close to replicating with all our modern technology. To mock the fact that it is made up of carbon and chemicals, as if these causal agents are not capable of producing the effects that they would attribute to a soul. The soul, a construct that is totally primitive, base, and uncouth by contrast. A construct which they could not describe, and about which they couldn’t even profess a concrete concept of except to state that it somehow does the work we attribute to the brain without any of the substance and complexity that the brain posses.  I’m left to wonder, do you who follow the precepts of faith realize how utterly rude, crude, and condescending you are?

You must also remember that we never say in absolute terms that there is no god. To state anything with certainty is the province of faith, which we reject. We do not say there is no god, only that there is no reason to believe in a god. We are not agnostics who seem iffy on the proposition in general. We assert that as with anything evidence of must be established for belief in. We don’t accept gravity because we want to; because it’s our tradition to, because it makes our parents happy, because we think it helps us live a better life, because we are afraid of death, or because we seek paradise. We accept gravity on the basis of evidence. There is not a shred of evidence to support the existence of any man made view of god, or indeed any possible concept of a deity therefore we hold it to be as likely as any myth from the tooth fairy to the possibility that a tea cup could be in orbit around Jupiter. For us the cargo cult of John Frum on the island of Vanuatu is as probable as the divinity of Christ, the integrity of the Koran, the holiness of the Torah, or the teachings of the Buddha, or even the gods of old. We hold all religions equally false, often for the same reasons different faiths hold each other false. In a sense we are all atheists because we all have religions about which we take the atheist position. In deed no one is more certain of the untruth in the divinity of Jesus than a follower of the prophet Mohammad. An atheist for reasons already explained can’t state with certainty that Jesus was not the son of god, but a Muslim not only can, a Muslim does, and vice versa.

Finally bear in mind that we do have morals, indeed that morality and human solidarity are necessarily innate to human beings. No society that has ever existed has allowed theft, ****, perjury, or any of the other injunctions claimed by the religious as their mandate. To ask the fatuous question “what chemical causes love” is to attempt to mock what should be revered. The fact that by an extremely complex and wondrous system we have ingrained onto our minds and bodies the principles’ necessary to be social animals. One may as well ask what makes cows travel in herds, and what makes wolves hunt in packs. What keeps the Alfa wolf at the head, and why the omega wolf never just refuses to follow him? To ask what objective basis I have for moral truths, without the belief in god is to assume that without god, all is permitted. If that were true, then how did we survive before the given religion we are talking about came into existence? How do animals who can’t comprehend religion survive? These are questions that only exist as unanswerable if you accept the proposition of god, without god, these problems don’t exist to be solved.

Finally I have to say that if any offense was rendered herein, I cannot be asked to apologize. We as followers of the materialistic tradition worship at only one alter, the alter of truth. I will not apologize for stating openly my theory, in fact I would consider it wrong of me to deny you or anyone the possible benefit of that point, (whether correct or not.) I know you must consider my tone harsh and my comments blasphemous. There truly is no polite way to question the validity of faith without challenging the core of the faithful. Just as you cannot challenge my adherence to empiricism and rationalism without offending me, I cannot challenge your faith without offending you. However I did not write this that I might be spared your words, nor did I write it to enjoin the pity of my comrades. It is because I follow the path of reason and science that I welcome all attacks, and encourage critique. I do this so that I can be tested, have my ideas refined, and am that much more certain of my stance.


I ask only this of you, so made that you must believe,
understand the infidel unwilling to deceive,
for I must tell the truth regardless of where that might lead.
Matter made, no divine assistance doth my mind require
So question not the atheism to which you too may aspire
please spare me the aforementioned moans
For I’ve shown them to be nothing more than senseless groans
Devise as it were, knew methods of attack
Or please do kindly be, less taken aback
When I claim of you, the intent to deceive
All of us, that we might believe.


Credit and thanks to Rachel for permitting the use of her words in spite of the context.

5
Polytheism / Re: The Egyptian gods
« on: February 20, 2010, 03:27:05 pm »
My favorite Egyptian divinity is the goddess Ma'at, for reasons I probably don't need to tell you.

6
Polytheism / Re: The Egyptian gods
« on: February 20, 2010, 03:11:23 pm »
Set the god of desert, storms, darkness, and chaos. Who murdered Osiris only to be banished by his son Horus

7
Welcome forum / Re: guess who I am
« on: February 20, 2010, 03:07:40 pm »
You are ghost of dark, and you can't **** the willing.

8
Essays / Hegemony in mid Asia.
« on: January 29, 2010, 03:06:23 pm »
Much talk but little real consideration has been vested in the considerable problem of long term stability in the Middle East. Most parties find themselves in agreement regarding the long term goals, but fervent disagreement on how best to reach them. Factoring into the equation the current deficits regarding both capital, resources, and manpower as well as the political considerations I will endeavor to draw forth a path to a modernized unified and benevolent middle east in which the west may find a kindred spirit and ally that is capable of meeting the needs of its own citizens.

Halting the decline

Currently economic and moral deficits hamper the attempts by the current administration to broaden the front against jihad to include the known havens in Somalia and Yemen as well as those in Pakistan and northern Afghanistan. The first step to peace in the region is for the primary implement of action, ie the American armed forces to have at its disposal immense capital and human resources to be expended willingly with the consent of the people. Therefore this necessitates the establishment of a booming domestic economy with a strong industrial base capable of producing the implements of war.

To accomplish an economic recovery the deficits in the current system must be addressed, the financial sector must be purged of wrong doing by way of intense scrutiny by law enforcement with resourced devoted to rooting out fraud, embezzlement and other forms of white collar crime, these individuals once found guilty in keeping with legal standard should have their assets seized and used to finance the economic recovery. This purging should extend to all major corporations, hedge funds, banking firms, and insurance companies so as to restore popular confidence in the capitalist system and prevent further loss of capital to criminal activity.
After the financial sector is stabilized and cleansed, consideration should be given to the nations crumbling infrastructure. All methods of water distribution, sewage treatment, sanitation, and transportation both public and privet should be modernized and brought to a standard that meets the needs of all citizens with reasonable redundancy while adhering to the strictest environmental and safety standards so that our institutions are built on a sustainable and ethical platform that will remain for generations to come. Once this has been achieved laws should be enacted mandating constant inspection and maintenance of all institutions to ensure we never again fall to the deplorable depths we have sunk.

Once the basis of any state is met, (its civil infrastructure) we must turn to industry and manufacturing, the bane of neo liberal thinkers everywhere. While many would claim we live in a post industrial society the inconvenient truth remains that we have a working class in America that both desires and requires jobs in the traditional industrial sectors of the economy. More over a diverse economy is a stable economy and having an industrial base will allow our more modern pursuits a stable foundation on which to grow with some minor insulation from the fluctuations of global markets. This can and should be accomplished by first focusing on the core of industry, energy, food, and markets. The government should invest in new solar, wind, tidal, and nuclear plants in a nationwide program designed to lower the cost of energy by drastically increasing the supply. This will have the duel effect of putting thousands of Americans back to work, and incentivizing individuals and business to expand now free of the undue burden of high energy costs. It will also have a positive effect on the environment and offset the cost of environmental action regarding climate change. Next we must turn to agriculture; our primary aim should be to expand local agriculture to limit our dependency on key crops at centralized locations such as those in California. In addition to improving general nutrition by providing locally grown and thus fully ripened fresh food, we will also be able to expand our export markets and begin to alleviate the very serious problem of world hunger, which in regards to the political question of Somalia is a pressing issue. Once those issues are addressed we must focus on establishing markets for these goods and favorable trade agreements that will allow American manufacturing to grow. Our chief problem is maintaining free trade agreements with nations that treat their working class little better than chattel slaves, unionization of labor, mandated safety, environmental, and wage standards should be encouraged to level the playing field. This will mean an increase in the cost of goods, but also an increase in wages, thus people in general will be able to keep to the rate of inflation with their rising salaries rather than find them unable to purchase artificially deflated goods as a function of either having a poor job or no job at all. This method is a sound successor to the rightfully discredited practice of protectionism which only serves to encourage mediocrity at home and animosity abroad. Once these matters are addressed we should then move to make the domestic environment favorable to manufacturing by streamlining approval procedures, and easing costs associated with starting and maintaining a business. This being a fair and universal alternative to the outdated notion of subsidy which serves to make success in business a function of effective lobbying and not a superior business model.

The enemy within,

Now once the domestic economy is in a stable state we must turn to the moral question, domestic extremist groups should be investigated and anti American cults like the Lew Rockwell institute and the LaRouchePAC as well as neo nazi, racist, and Marxist organizations should be broken up along the traditional lines used to tackle the mafia and other criminal organizations. These groups disseminate slanderous propaganda and engage in practices that warrant scrutiny and any wrong doing found should be pursued. If none be found then class action lawsuits attacking them for libel, and fighting words should be organized and encouraged with the explicit purpose of limiting dissent to only factually correct and responsible criticism of policy and not totally fictitious and radical conspiracy theories.

Building a coalition

When both moral and capital are available we must next recruit allies in the region and throughout the world. We should only ally ourselves with secular democratic countries and movements whose reputation and sincerity are not questionable and whose motives conform to the notion of a fair deal for the people of mid Asia. We should reach out to west Europe, particularly the UK, Spain, France, Italy, Germany, and the Nordic countries. Who while faced with the same threat from Islamic fundamentalism as we are, tend to be less than forthcoming in support as well as lacking necessary conviction to the cause. This can be reversed by clarifying our intentions to the people of west Europe and disseminating the ideals of democracy, secularism, and resistance to tyranny and theocracy that are the bulwark of the global war against Islamic theocracy. We must also relive ourselves of inconsistencies by abandoning the tyrants in Egypt and Saudi Arabia who’s tacit support is neither helpful nor indeed genuine. We must also negotiate an agreement between moderate factions in the Palestinian and Israeli establishment to bring an end to messianic settlement and intifada as well as a general recognition of both states; this can only be accomplished by rejecting and marginalizing the hard-line factions on both sides, forcibly if necessary. We should then strive to make a friend of Marxist, secularist, feminist, LGBT, and minority movements and groups within the Middle East who have everything to gain from a secularization of the region. At present these groups are either uninvolved with the fight, unthanked and unwelcomed allies, or even opponents on the basis of distrust and suspicion. This must be reversed and the arming, training, and funding of such movements is in our interest and the interest of the cause as a whole. We should disassociate ourselves from and cleanse corrupt institutions such as the Karzai government in Afghanistan or the Pakistani intelligence service and reach out to alternative support systems such as the tribal alliances in Afghanistan and the Indian government which is after all the world’s most populous secular democracy and is in close geographical proximity to the conflict. Collusion with India however must be tempered with conditions regarding the marginalization of Hindu extremist organizations and a resolution to the Kashmiri question which is a source of continued conflict between the two former of the 3 ethnic Indian states, (Pakistan, India, and Bangladesh.) The execution of that process should be determined by the majority opinion of the residents of the contested region with arbitration provided by disinterested parties only after peace and security is established to prevent coercion by extremist factions. A new deal specifically for the citizens of Pakistan must be established with an economic and political reform that puts them on a more stable footing than they are at present.

The long war

Once the network of international support has been established we must next concern ourselves with the various fronts of the conflict and how to rectify them, those not previously explained in the context of diplomacy will be henceforth addressed.  The key to short term success in Afghanistan lies in eliminating the Taliban, any attempts to attain peace with them or include them into the establishment are folly, they must be extirpated. This is done by locating and eliminating their sanctuaries, tightening security in towns, cities, villages, and along the roads, as well as organizing local militias to defend their own communities along the model Americans first employed in the revolutionary war. Fortifying said villages with basic defenses while seemingly archaic will go some way to defending them against raids from the rather primitive and tribal enemy we are fighting.  Long term success is based almost entirely on economic growth, literacy, and community, which will require acceptance of the opium crop and incorporation of its products in the legal American economy. We can then aid in the industrialization and modernization of agriculture and opiate production, which may be used medicinally or under a fair amount of scrutiny recreationally. This will of course require an end to the fruitless and futile practice of prohibition which is discredited in the minds of most young Americans. In addition to this the processes described in the section regarding the American economy should be applied with the intent of getting Afghans into stable paying jobs and Afghan girls and boys into non religious schools. Once a level of economic and educational progress is met, democracy will be inevitable as well as positive feelings towards the instrumental force behind this new deal for Afghanistan.

Once Afghanistan and Pakistan are secured with a friendly union of Indian states we can turn to dealing with the North African and Arabian states which either require an entire regime of nation building or pressure to reform politically. In Saudi Arabia we have to use our new found leverage on the house of Saud thanks to the aforementioned energy reforms to either have the formation of a parliament with an expansion of rights to women, minorities, and homosexuals, or to have an internal revolution by these disaffected parties that will achieve the desired result. In either case the destruction of and discrediting of the Wahhabi school of Islamic thought should be the primary aim regarding this matter. Madrassas should be replaced with secular schools that teach patriotic liberal values.

In Somalia we have to defeat the local al Qaeda forces and essentially build a state from scratch, the first step is infrastructure and agriculture, once they have food and running water as a bare minimum, then we invest in industry, education throughout will be vital. This same strategy should be applied in Yemen where we will have our work cut out countering the message of the radical clerics and working with tribal leadership to maintain peace and rout out the enemy. 

In Iran we should ally with democratic forces and aid them in their struggle against theocracy in whatever way they wish. Upon successful establishment of a secular democracy we should offer them trade, investment, and all the considerations due a free state.

Conclusion

Then finally after the main trouble spots in the Middle East are stabilized we must bring the various states together to first agree upon trade agreements and immigration policy, then work to establish a federation on the modal of the EU that is more favorable to modern principles than the current Arab league. These agreements will be mediated by disinterested parties with Nato offering to enforce all agreements, finally all members will be offered nato membership and then we should consider renaming and reclassifying nato as a military alliance of secular liberal democracies against totalitarianism, theocracy, and fascism, instead of a north Atlantic alliance against communism. We will adopt a charter that outlaws all forms of discrimination and protects human rights and bind all members to its practice and to war in its defense.

9
Local News / someone got whacked on my street
« on: January 08, 2010, 08:51:03 pm »
Source, Boston Globe,  http://www.boston.com/new...0/01/defense_man_fou.html

Quote
CHELSEA -- A man whose bloody body was found discarded head-first in a trash barrel was allegedly stabbed to death by his roommate in a fight fueled by allegations of robbery and a dispute over a woman, authorities said today in court.

The roommate, Marvin Ruano-Garcia, 24, is accused of killing Israel Vasquez in the first-floor apartment they shared at 96 Grove St. Vasquez's body was then stuffed in that brown plastic trash barrel, dragged some 75 feet from down the street, and left. Two women made the gruesome discovery at dawn on Tuesday morning, spotting the man's legs, which had been wrapped in plastic bags and protruded from the trash barrel.

Ruano-Garcia, 24, pleaded not guilty today at his arraignment in Chelsea District Court. Defense attorney John G. Tardif said that his client acted in self defense.

Vasquez was the one who burst into his room in the middle of the night and tried to rob Ruano-Garcia, Tardif said. The two men also had feelings for the same women, he said, and they tussled. During the struggle, Vasquez "fell on his own knife," Tardif said. 
"This was pure self defense," the defense lawyer continued. "No homicide at all."

Rumana-Garcia is an immigrant from Honduras who has a legal permit to work in the United States, Tardif said. He dumped the body in the garbage because he was nervous about not being a US citizen, Tardif said.

Rumana-Garcia is employed as a sausage maker on the North Shore, Tardif said, and he went to work after the killing and told his boss what happened. His boss called police.

Vasquez was the father of five children and had several grandchildren, according to his eldest son, Cleyben Rojas, 27. Rojas said that his father had worked in the produce section at Market Basket in Salem and had lived in the Grove Street apartment for a decade. In the past, Vasquez had gotten along with his roommate, Rojas said, but the two men were not particularly close.

"He didn't deserve to die like that," Rojas said.

This sort of thing happens a lot, however its rare that it makes the news, must have been a particularly gruseome sight. Didn't see it myself, it was freezing that day so I stayed in. The killer and I have never met, my sister thinks he was the scum bag that I told to f-ck off because he was hitting on her. A shame he didn't try to start something with me, the dead guy might be alive if that was the case...

10
Global / Von Brunn dies in prison
« on: January 06, 2010, 05:05:29 pm »
Quote
An elderly white supremacist accused of shooting dead a guard at the U.S. Holocaust Museum in Washington last year died Wednesday in a hospital near the jail where he was being held, a federal prisons official said.

“Authorities at the location where James von Brunn was incarcerated, the federal correctional complex at Butner, North Carolina, told us that he was pronounced dead at a local hospital shortly before 1:00 p.m. today,” Edmond Ross, a spokesman for the Federal Bureau of Prisons, told AFP.

“He had a long history of poor health, which included chronic congestive heart failure and sepsis,” Ross said, although he was unable to state the precise cause of von Brunn’s death.

source: http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/posted/archive/2010/01/06/accused-holocaust-shooter-von-brunn-dies-in-prison-hospital-report.aspx

Good riddance!


11
Atheism / Reason and belief
« on: December 25, 2009, 12:49:46 am »
Is there a reason to believe in god, or should people even need to have a reason to believe in anything?

Does reason trump instinct and feeling, or is that a mean and unfluffy point of view that will hurt someones feelings?

12
The Public Forum / recession christmass list.
« on: December 17, 2009, 07:09:45 pm »
Me: underwear, socks, thermals

My sister: new sowing machine

Thank you Obama, now it really feels like FDR is back in office. I remember last years during the Bush administration, I got an xbox 360, 5 games, a black light, 2 pairs of pajamas, and a stocking full of chocolate. We've regressed at least 50 years in 11 months.





13
Big Government - Authoritarian / Re: My Problem with Universal Health Care
« on: December 08, 2009, 06:01:22 pm »
I never thought you'd be arguing the conservative position and I'd be arguing the progressive. Funny how that works. The way I see it, if you set the cost of labor universally the market will readjust to about where it should be, and the slow shift of manufacturing from america to china and Latin america will cease, and manufacturing and consumption will start to distribute evenly.

As it is, we will continue to consume while the rest of the world produces, and our debt will rise until the nations that handle production refuse to buy anymore of it. Then the global economy dies and world war 3 starts.

14
The Public Forum / Re: They say a picture is worth a thousand words....
« on: December 01, 2009, 08:14:48 am »
If McCain had won, healthcare reform would be over and done with, the war in Iraq would be finished, we'd be winning in Afghanistan, Iran's government would have collapsed during the riots last summer, and the economy would be on the path to recovery.

That much I'm fairly sure of. More than that I can't say.

15
Big Government - Authoritarian / Re: My Problem with Universal Health Care
« on: November 28, 2009, 09:45:10 pm »
If we lower wages to compete with the rest of the world we are going to have riots. Americans could never be made to live like that, you'd have a Marxist revolution.
 
The better option is to force our trading partners to raise their wages. 
 
The cost of goods will skyrocket and people will have to deal with that. I could care less, anyone who would rather have cheep goods at the cost of slave labor than goods made by paid workers deserves to be sent to a labor camp and forced to make shoes for the rest of his or her life for 5 cents a day in 95 degree moldy rat infested conditions without clean water or plumbing.

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