Author Topic: Psychiatry Pushes Drugs, Kills Boy  (Read 551 times)

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Alia

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Psychiatry Pushes Drugs, Kills Boy
« on: April 22, 2009, 08:29:17 pm »
Ref: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/top-stories/story/1011223.html

Quote
Broward child's suicide raises questions about medication
A Broward foster child who killed himself last week had been prescribed powerful psychiatric drugs, some of which the FDA does not approve for children.
Weeks before his death, Gabriel Myers, the 7-year-old Broward boy who hanged himself in the shower of his foster home, had been prescribed a powerful mind-altering drug linked by federal regulators to an increased risk of suicide in children.

In all, Gabriel had been prescribed four psychiatric drugs, two or three of which he was taking at the time of his death, said Jack Moss, Broward chief of the state Department of Children & Families. Moss said he is not sure which medications the boy was taking because Margate police took the foster home's medication log as part of an investigation into Gabriel's death last week.

Three of the psychotropic drugs carry U.S. Food and Drug Administration ''black box'' label warnings for children's safety, the strongest advisory the federal agency issues. Three of the medications are not approved for use with young children, though they are widely prescribed to youngsters ''off label'' -- meaning doctors can prescribe the drug even if not formally approved for that use.

In 2005 -- reacting to a series of stories in The Miami Herald that as many as one in four foster children were prescribed potentially dangerous mind-altering drugs -- state lawmakers approved a law aimed at curbing their use. Children's advocates now question whether the law is being ignored.

Gabriel was being treated by a Broward psychiatrist who is on a list of Florida doctors that the state Agency for Health Care Administration red-flagged as having ''problematic'' prescribing practices, said Robert Constantine, director of AHCA's Medicaid Drug Therapy Management Program, which tracks prescribing of psychiatric drugs to children.

The list flags doctors with a high volume of prescriptions of mental-health drugs or potentially dangerous combinations of the medications.

Dr. Sohail Punjwani has been on the list every quarter in which regulators have monitored the prescribing of psychotropic drugs since the program was created in 2006, said Constantine, a professor at the University of South Florida's Mental Health Institute. The practices of about 17,000 Florida doctors who prescribe medications to children on Medicaid are studied every quarter, and about 300 to 450 end up red-flagged on the list.

And though Florida law requires that either a parent or judge consent to the use of psychotropic drugs on foster children, a source with knowledge of the boy's case said Gabriel already had been taking a three-drug cocktail when Broward Circuit Judge Lisa Porter was informed at a March 11 hearing. The judge approved the medications over the objection of a court-appointed guardian, the source said.

''We are devastated,'' said Jon Myers, the boy's maternal uncle, who cared for him from June through October 2008. ``Gabriel's problems could not be solved by a pharmacy.''

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Giuliano Taverna

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Re: Psychiatry Pushes Drugs, Kills Boy
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2009, 08:37:59 pm »
Anyone who doesn't recognize the pharmaceutical industry has become a racket needs to look into stories like this. The FDA couldn't stop this if they wanted to, its a totally corrupt system.
"It is the duty of a good shepherd to shear his sheep, not to skin them." Tiberius Caesar

BuddhasWench

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Re: Psychiatry Pushes Drugs, Kills Boy
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2009, 11:00:11 pm »
This seemed relevant.

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MONTPELIER There's a psychiatrist out there somewhere in Vermont only a handful of people know this person's identity who walked away with $112,000 in gifts and payments last year from the pharmaceutical industry.

The payments, usually for speaking engagements or other services, came almost entirely from a single pharmaceutical company, whose identity also is unknown.

There's also a geriatric medical doctor who received more $50,000 in payments last year. A dermatologist got $15,000 in gifts from the industry while another Vermont doctor received nearly $16,000 worth of meals on the industry's dime.

All their identities along with the dozens and dozens of other Vermont doctors, pediatricians and nurses who accepted payments from the pharmaceutical industry last year totaling $2.9 million are secret.

From: http://www.timesargus.com/article/20090419/NEWS01/904190370/1002/NEWS01

Just the same thing but I like using different articles:


Quote
The nation's pharmaceutical makers spent more than $2.9 million on Vermont's doctors, hospitals and universities to market their products in the last fiscal year, according to a report issued Wednesday by the state attorney general's office.

That's down slightly from the previous year, but Attorney General William Sorrell says he's not sure if the drug companies are tightening their belts or if they want to avoid public scrutiny for the payments, whose recipients aren't identified.

The report shows 78 companies spent the money in the year ending July 1, 2008. By law, the companies have to report their spending on consulting and speakers' fees, travel expenses, gifts and other payments to or for physicians, hospitals, universities and others authorized to prescribe drugs.

From: http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2009/04/16/ap6296844.html

Marketing drugs on TV is one thing but getting doctors to market them to their patients because of pay-off and not because they think it's the best option for the patient is a huge violation of trust, and destroys the very important bond between a patient and the doctor and begins to not be about the patients well being and starts to be about how many drugs you can get them to pay for.

Much as the over prescription of drugs for ADD/ADHD in this country which is just another way to get money and avoid actual patient health, because there is no generic treatment for something like depression and the success rate for medicated patients is rather low anyway because the "chemical imbalance" is unique to each person.  I shouldn't go into this any further.

Anyway, that boy is another casualty of the ever growing  corruption in the pharmaceutical/health care industries.  It probably also says something about parenting to allow their child to be prescribed that many medications as possibly a quick fix to their problems.  But then again I'm sure they have some sort of trust in their doctor and believe that to be the best path...but maybe not.  I should stop here.

Giuliano Taverna

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Re: Psychiatry Pushes Drugs, Kills Boy
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2009, 12:31:39 am »
The cult of drugs is pervasive and all encompassing. Even today in my psych 101 class I questioned why it was that techniques like psycho dynamic, humanistic, and cognitive theory were second lined to behavioral and pharmaceutical treatments. The counter argument was that the techniques I favored (because they aimed at treating the under lying causes of disorder and thus curing them), was... There isn't data, its too philosophical, and that it could simply be a case of spontaneous regression.

I of course answered back with, if spontaneous regression exists in meaningful statistic it would be present in all of the treatments, thus including the behavioral and pharmaceutical ones which I was arguing not against, but against the over use of.

To that my professor replied. Well the answer I gave is the one you need for the test...

Incidentally, I scored 100% on that test.

The point is the majority of treatment is aimed not at a "cure" (they don't even use the term cure, they call it, "insert disorder here" in remission) but for permanent dependence on treatment and medication.

In short, the mental health industry, are bigger than the Mexican drug cartels!

This isn't to disparage the well meaning legitimate people who work in this noble industry, but in general, and in too many cases, it is what it is. drastic oversight, regulation, and transparency is needed.

The problem is a hydra; its heads are parasitic pharmaceutical trusts, corrupt doctors, and paternalistic detached "experts" in the field of psychology.

They cry for more funding and blame lack of it for the problems in the field, the dirty secret is the "problem" is that they aren't curing people, they are sustaining people. Its the same issue prevalent in most of the charitable or essential service oriented sectors. They do not solve social problems, they suppress them. And just as the forbears of these corrupt mental health providers used electroshock to "cure" homosexuality among other things. Now they drug the mentally ill into a pseudo catatonic state just so they will quietly endure the agony that comes with their regrettable condition!
"It is the duty of a good shepherd to shear his sheep, not to skin them." Tiberius Caesar

SandStone

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Re: Psychiatry Pushes Drugs, Kills Boy
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2009, 01:18:38 pm »
If parents are too stupid to check the credentials of their doctors and to check the medications they are "recommending" then I really don't feel sorry for them at all when their kid ends up dead.

That goes for any adult that is too stupid to realize the inherent dangers of mixing multiple prescription drugs (ala Anna Nicole Smith).

Alia

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Re: Psychiatry Pushes Drugs, Kills Boy
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2009, 03:51:29 pm »
They're not necessarily too stupid. The clever drug salesman, a.k.a. psychiatrist, just puts their fears aside.

"Oh," he'll say, "That only happens in less that one per cent of cases, and if it does, we'll be monitoring for it and it's completely reversible."

"Ah," he'll swindle, "But there's no other way. This is my honest recommendation, you can't deal with these problems without medication."

Or my personal favourite, because I do have friends who have been thusly cheated, "Oh, don't worry, it's just a problem with the dosage, we can fix that my making me more mon- *cough* I mean, giving you a little bit higher dose. I assure you, this will work, just give us time to figure out the dosage."

So sometimes not stupid (but yes, some people just don't care about their children) - but cheated and swindled.

Giuliano Taverna

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Re: Psychiatry Pushes Drugs, Kills Boy
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2009, 04:10:38 pm »
Doctors are supposed to be trustworthy figures of authority, the break down of the doctor patient relationship is an extremely negative sign for the well being of our health care system.

The fact that parents even need to worry about doctors is a problem that requires a solution.
"It is the duty of a good shepherd to shear his sheep, not to skin them." Tiberius Caesar

SandStone

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Re: Psychiatry Pushes Drugs, Kills Boy
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2009, 05:06:36 pm »
They're not necessarily too stupid. The clever drug salesman, a.k.a. psychiatrist, just puts their fears aside.

"Oh," he'll say, "That only happens in less that one per cent of cases, and if it does, we'll be monitoring for it and it's completely reversible."

"Ah," he'll swindle, "But there's no other way. This is my honest recommendation, you can't deal with these problems without medication."

Or my personal favourite, because I do have friends who have been thusly cheated, "Oh, don't worry, it's just a problem with the dosage, we can fix that my making me more mon- *cough* I mean, giving you a little bit higher dose. I assure you, this will work, just give us time to figure out the dosage."

So sometimes not stupid (but yes, some people just don't care about their children) - but cheated and swindled.


As far as I'm concerned it's the individual's responsibility to check the credentials of the doctor they are visiting and to research the treatment methods they recommend or provide for.

I feel the same way towards idiots that visit MDs without checking their credentials and then feel cheated later on when the doctor misdiagnoses them due to lack of experience.

Alia

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Re: Psychiatry Pushes Drugs, Kills Boy
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2009, 05:07:49 pm »
The credentials are many times perfect; these people know what they're doing. They just choose to push drugs and make money rather than help people.

BuddhasWench

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Re: Psychiatry Pushes Drugs, Kills Boy
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2009, 09:46:48 pm »
As far as I'm concerned it's the individual's responsibility to check the credentials of the doctor they are visiting and to research the treatment methods they recommend or provide for.

I feel the same way towards idiots that visit MDs without checking their credentials and then feel cheated later on when the doctor misdiagnoses them due to lack of experience.

"Trust me I'm a doctor" right?

Usually the credentials are fine, that's not always the problem.  You act as if these parents have some kind of formal medical training, you go to a doctor because they are suppose to know what they are talking about, and most of the time they do, it's just some get corrupted by the pay-offs they are getting from the pharmaceutical companies, so they get caught up more in pushing drugs rather than actual treatment. 

Plus when it comes to psychiatric drugs, which don't actually do that much (mood elevators) they are just a temporary fix you need to be on long term or don't work at all (anti-depression drugs causing suicidal tendencies).

I agree the parents are at some fault but they are probably just worried for their child and as they aren't doctors will take the word of one who they believe has the best intentions at heart.

If it was up to me I would trust to word of someone talking to me face to face who had a PhD, who I could ask questions rather than a web article I've read online. But the more and more I hear about the corruption of the health care system from stories like this I fear that trust between the doctor and patient will wear thin because of these pharmaceutical companies, who don't seem to ever want to fix the problem, just permanently treat it, because there is no money to be had for a cure.

SandStone

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Re: Psychiatry Pushes Drugs, Kills Boy
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2009, 02:49:33 pm »
As far as I'm concerned it's the individual's responsibility to check the credentials of the doctor they are visiting and to research the treatment methods they recommend or provide for.

I feel the same way towards idiots that visit MDs without checking their credentials and then feel cheated later on when the doctor misdiagnoses them due to lack of experience.

"Trust me I'm a doctor" right?

Usually the credentials are fine, that's not always the problem.  You act as if these parents have some kind of formal medical training, you go to a doctor because they are suppose to know what they are talking about, and most of the time they do, it's just some get corrupted by the pay-offs they are getting from the pharmaceutical companies, so they get caught up more in pushing drugs rather than actual treatment. 

Plus when it comes to psychiatric drugs, which don't actually do that much (mood elevators) they are just a temporary fix you need to be on long term or don't work at all (anti-depression drugs causing suicidal tendencies).

I agree the parents are at some fault but they are probably just worried for their child and as they aren't doctors will take the word of one who they believe has the best intentions at heart.

If it was up to me I would trust to word of someone talking to me face to face who had a PhD, who I could ask questions rather than a web article I've read online. But the more and more I hear about the corruption of the health care system from stories like this I fear that trust between the doctor and patient will wear thin because of these pharmaceutical companies, who don't seem to ever want to fix the problem, just permanently treat it, because there is no money to be had for a cure.

Lol, well this is probably the difference between me and normal people, I am inherently skeptical of just about everything. And I rarely trust anyone, that includes people who are "supposedly" more educated than me.

I have an inherent distrust of authority to begin with, and I think it would be wiser for others to do the same.

Giuliano Taverna

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Re: Psychiatry Pushes Drugs, Kills Boy
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2009, 02:51:35 pm »
Do you really want to permit a standard that demands such distrust between doctor and patient?
"It is the duty of a good shepherd to shear his sheep, not to skin them." Tiberius Caesar

BuddhasWench

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Re: Psychiatry Pushes Drugs, Kills Boy
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2009, 03:26:26 pm »
That's rather silly, where then would you get your information?  Books?  Because those were written by experts "supposedly" more educated than yourself.  I'm sure you aren't going to do experiments or even have the know how to perform them.  Because that's really the only way to truly be as skeptical as you are proposing especially when it comes to matter of health and science, which aren't things that can be understood by reading a few pages of text, as individual cases vary and solutions aren't so simple as to say there is a generic fix.  Even Hobbes wouldn't advocate that amount of mistrust for people who are "ignorant" in the ways of science (in this case the human body).

When it comes to doctors it's about trust (psychiatry is another matter, as most of the drugs don't really fix anything and most of the time don't work properly anyway because again there needs to be tailored solutions for each person, and I believe the practice has gotten lazy with over prescribing drugs like these), that's why the bond between the doctor and patient is so important (when the kid was getting put on that many medications of course it would be a good idea to get a second opinion, but psychiatry has become a broken practice).  When it comes to politicians and the like of course it's wise to be skeptical.

Alia

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Re: Psychiatry Pushes Drugs, Kills Boy
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2009, 09:09:17 pm »
Sandy's doing exactly the right thing, and it's not silly. I don't use drugs, I hate drugs. Drugs ruin people. Any time you put something in your body that is unnatural, which Nature did not make, you're taking a horrible risk.

I don't believe doctors, no matter what they say. And I don't go to doctors, because they don't make any money by making you better.

Giuliano Taverna

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Re: Psychiatry Pushes Drugs, Kills Boy
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2009, 09:53:46 pm »
Ok... I'll play this game. Ahem...

How could you say something so terrible, not all drugs are bad, and a doctors primary responsibility is to help the sick not to make money, ect...
"It is the duty of a good shepherd to shear his sheep, not to skin them." Tiberius Caesar